Veterans and Ben Carson

Posted by Joshua119 
November 06, 2015 03:03PM
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So apparently Ben Carson has been caught lying about several aspects of his youth, including acceptance to West Point.
[www.nydailynews.com]

As a historian, my blood boils whenever I hear of people claiming to have military experience that they do not, and I've never been in the service.

So I'm curious, how do you vets feel about this? Is it not a big deal or has it completely destroyed his credibility for you? Is this just stupidity on his part or is this as bad as wearing store bought medals? Is it a mistake that should be forgiven? If you were planning to vote for him, has that changed?

For me, he wasn't my first choice anyway, but I don't think that anyone who would make such a claim can be considered fit for office. As a historian, it is my job to ensure that the memory of true Americans is preserved in perpetuity, how can a man be presidential material when he dishonors the memory of the multitude of fine officers that West Point has produced?

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
November 06, 2015 04:21PM
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*

'It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.' Sherlock Holmes

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. R. Hanlon

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2016 11:46AM by NeoVictorian.
November 06, 2015 04:38PM
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NeoVictorian
He, along with Trump, were never on my radar as far as palatable candidates go, even before investigative reporting found this embellishment in his past.

Yeah, I think Trump is only doing well because of his celebrity. If people actually stopped and listened to him I don't think he would still be in the race. I actually had some respect for Carson, but now I feel like his credibility has been completely destroyed.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
November 07, 2015 07:16AM
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NeoVictorian
I want more common sense in anyone I vote for than thinking the purpose of the pyramids were grain storage.

He said it was a theory of his.

You may have some theories that I think are retarded, too.

Does it have anything to do with our debt?

Jobs?

The economy?

Our enemies?

Who give a fuck?

This is the liberal media finding any fuckin' thing they can on him!

Did they go after Hitlery when she was caught lying?

Did they dig deep to find the guys that sold Barry weed?

FUCK NO!

If somethin' comes out of the lame-stream, stop and think about why it's comin' out.

Now this bein' said, I'm votin' for Hitlery 'cause I wanna get this party started.drinking smiley

I don't plan on dyin'.

I mean, yes, it is definitely a possibility, but I'd rather shoot 'n scoot to get some more.

My plan is to be the biggest pain in the ass possible.

Like a sandpaper dildo.
November 07, 2015 07:54AM
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One, he never said he was accepted, he said that he was told that if he applied he would be accepted. He cleared that up 20 years ago. I don't see its him claiming military service, he never said he went to west point. This isa classic example of someone taking a misunderstanding and running with it, then saying that he lied.

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
November 07, 2015 07:59AM
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That said, I will never vote for Ben, or Donald, because they are the same as the establishment, they just piss off the established because they didn't come in the right way. The best predictor of future performance is past behavior. I do not believe that Ben understands the concept of individual liberty and self ownership, and Donald has given to much money to socialists and democrats for me to ever take him seriously as a pro liberty candidate.

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2015 07:59AM by ahoward2k.
November 07, 2015 10:18AM
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ahoward2k
One, he never said he was accepted, he said that he was told that if he applied he would be accepted. He cleared that up 20 years ago.

"According to a tale told in his book, “Gifted Hands,” the then-17 year old was introduced in 1969 to Gen. William Westmoreland, who had just ended his command of U.S. forces in Vietnam, and the two dined together. That meeting, according to Carson’s telling, was followed by the offer of a “full scholarship” to the military academy."

"When presented by POLITICO with these facts, Carson’s campaign conceded he never applied."

"In an interview with The New York Times following the POLITICO story, Carson said: “I don’t remember all the specific details. Because I had done so extraordinarily well you know I was told that someone like me – they could get a scholarship to West Point."

"Carson would have needed to seek admission in order to receive an offer of free education from West Point. Also, according to West Point, there is no such thing as a “full scholarship” to the military academy, as Carson represented in his book."

He never claimed to be a soldier, but he did claim to receive a prestigious offer from none other that General Westmoreland, an offer that not only was never offered, but if fact doesn't exist. This isn't a misunderstanding, this is a lie.

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badday
Did they go after Hitlery when she was caught lying?

perhaps you missed it, but there has been quite a bit of scrutiny directed at her. I even watched a 10 hour hearing about it.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
November 07, 2015 11:44AM
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So a 17 year old with no understanding of the workings of the military is recruited for west point, it is logical that he would call it a scholarship, because to him free school equals scholarship. Misunderstanding of terms is a long stretch from a lie. He has never claimed to have gone to west point. Again, a 17 year old kid gets actively recruited sure to his performance in junior ROTC, but decoded not to go through with it, so he would nor have a through understanding of the process, so given his limited understanding of the process and limited vocabulary, the best description for the event would be that he was offered a scholarship.

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
November 07, 2015 11:45AM
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My cousins played college football, they were each offered multiple scholarship offers, without applying, it's part off the recruiting process.

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2015 11:45AM by ahoward2k.
November 07, 2015 11:56AM
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ahoward2k
So a 17 year old with no understanding of the workings of the military is recruited for west point, it is logical that he would call it a scholarship, because to him free school equals scholarship. Misunderstanding of terms is a long stretch from a lie. He has never claimed to have gone to west point. Again, a 17 year old kid gets actively recruited sure to his performance in junior ROTC, but decoded not to go through with it, so he would nor have a through understanding of the process, so given his limited understanding of the process and limited vocabulary, the best description for the event would be that he was offered a scholarship.

He isn't 17 anymore, he wasn't 17 when his book was written. He was a "model" JROTC cadet, so he certainly understood the military. I was a JROTC cadet myself, so I and many others know how much military education is involved in the program.
He attended Yale, so he knows all about the college process, and he still claimed to have been offered a scholarship to a school that doesn't give scholarships. The issue is not that he claimed to go to West Point, but that he claimed to be presented with certain honors that he wasn't. Embellishment is just a fancy term for lying.

Sure, he could have played the misunderstanding card back then, but by the time his book was written he was much better educated and certainly knew a lot more about the scholarship process.

But hey, if you don't mind being lied too, then by all means, continue to defend another lying politician.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2015 11:58AM by Joshua119.
November 07, 2015 12:03PM
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Furthermore, there is no evidence that he ever "ate dinner" with General Westmoreland as he claimed, and there is no evidence that he was ever offered any sort of appointment to West Point. Anyone who knows anything about West Point knows that it doesn't work that way.

The application process is incredibly tough and tedious. The ONLY people who get offered automatic acceptance are people whose parents have been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
November 07, 2015 04:40PM
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By "they", I was referring to the liberal media, mentioned in the line above the one you quoted.

Did they?

Nope.

Will they?

Nope.



I don't plan on dyin'.

I mean, yes, it is definitely a possibility, but I'd rather shoot 'n scoot to get some more.

My plan is to be the biggest pain in the ass possible.

Like a sandpaper dildo.
November 07, 2015 04:50PM
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If every misunderstanding and miscommunication is a lie, then we are all liars and this incompetent of judging him for lying

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
November 07, 2015 05:26PM
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ahoward2k
If every misunderstanding and miscommunication is a lie, then we are all liars and this incompetent of judging him for lying

Interesting, and here I thought that this was a place where we intended to hold politicians accountable, weed out the liars and thugs, that sort of thing.

Is this how you do patriotism moderator? Do you hope to change America by defending the liars when they get caught lying?

Perhaps this is not the right place for me. I was of the impression that this forum was about change, not lying down in defense of the current system.

I would caution anyone who ever sees this thread, clearly at least one of this forum's moderators is more dedicated to the liars of the bureaucracy than to Patriotism.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
November 07, 2015 06:42PM
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Lots of self righteousness there.

All of us have lied about something at sometime in their lives. I have no idea if the man lied or not. I have not gotten that in depth into the discussion about it. Do I believe that Carson is the man for the job, no. I believe he lacks depth of knowledge about foreign matters and he just doesn't have that spark I am looking for, the motivation of a leader. Do I care if he said he got acceptance into WP and he never pursued it, no I do not. If he said he graduated from WP, then that's another matter.

You can have my weapon when I am dead, careful though, the barrel's gonna be hot.
Airborne!! [m.youtube.com]
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November 08, 2015 06:14AM
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Joshua119
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ahoward2k
If every misunderstanding and miscommunication is a lie, then we are all liars and this incompetent of judging him for lying

Interesting, and here I thought that this was a place where we intended to hold politicians accountable, weed out the liars and thugs, that sort of thing.

Is this how you do patriotism moderator? Do you hope to change America by defending the liars when they get caught lying?

Perhaps this is not the right place for me. I was of the impression that this forum was about change, not lying down in defense of the current system.

I would caution anyone who ever sees this thread, clearly at least one of this forum's moderators is more dedicated to the liars of the bureaucracy than to Patriotism.

So someone disagrees with you and that's it huh? Temper tantrum much?
November 08, 2015 08:19AM
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Actually, if you look at my second post on this topic, you will see that I am opposed to Ben Carson because of his stance on key issues of individual liberties, I don't need to get butt-hurt over an inaccuracy in a book, that is not an issue of lying, but misconception. And in 1969, if William Westmoreland offered to get you into West Point, you would get into West Point. The fact that he never applied is immaterial.

If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day that my child may know peace.
~Thomas Paine
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2015 08:22AM by ahoward2k.
November 08, 2015 09:49AM
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So in layman's terms, the media will distort the truth to better fit their agenda.

I believe I made that point in another post.drinking smiley

I don't plan on dyin'.

I mean, yes, it is definitely a possibility, but I'd rather shoot 'n scoot to get some more.

My plan is to be the biggest pain in the ass possible.

Like a sandpaper dildo.
November 08, 2015 10:23AM
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Joshua119
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ahoward2k
If every misunderstanding and miscommunication is a lie, then we are all liars and this incompetent of judging him for lying

Interesting, and here I thought that this was a place where we intended to hold politicians accountable, weed out the liars and thugs, that sort of thing.

Is this how you do patriotism moderator? Do you hope to change America by defending the liars when they get caught lying?

Perhaps this is not the right place for me. I was of the impression that this forum was about change, not lying down in defense of the current system.

I would caution anyone who ever sees this thread, clearly at least one of this forum's moderators is more dedicated to the liars of the bureaucracy than to Patriotism.

I don't believe ANYTHING a past, present or future politician ever has to say except for something like this......

" The government will always be right, we will use the populace as we see fit, we can lie and deceive all we want while you must always tell the truth even at the cost of your own detriment , never question us just do as you are told and for awhile everything will appear to be fine, now shut your peasant mouths and do what your lords say ! May allah bless America ."

Now that I would believe .

I would not accept it, I would still fight against it, but I would believe that the truth had just come out .

Pastor Mike is like the kookey uncle at all the family functions, he is full of experience, knowledge and doesn't speak up often. But when he does you better listen, because its gonna be good.

S.Snow, Sept.28 2015
..........................................................................................................
I've come across a few of his posts. Good stuff. Witty fucker!

Free2Conserve Jan 06 2016
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2015 10:26AM by Pastor Mike.
6F0
November 08, 2015 11:23AM
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Carson said he was offered a scholarship (west point doesn't take tuition, but that's splitting hairs), but never applied. I don't see that as a lie.

Looking at the big picture, none of this matters anyway. Hillary has been chosen. Our votes don't matter. The electoral college votes are the only ones that count, and they're rigged.
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